Wait Time For Custom Builds??

[calicruiser]

I feel the need to respond here. Mario is not telling the whole story, which is fine, but it needs to be said that he changed his mind a NUMBER of times as to the direction of his build. He also threatened to back out of the build 3 times throughout the process. He did not wait 7 months for his bike. He made a deposit 7 months ago and knew at that time there were at least 5 builds ahead of him. That equals at least 5 months before we would even start his build.

Yes, we are EXTREMELY busy and there are only two of us who work at G&L. I work 3 days/week and Rich works 6 (sometimes 7) days/week. I can guarantee you when we are in the shop, we are working. The fact that we are this busy should tell you something about our product. It is in demand. At this time we are out almost a YEAR on complete builds. That means guys from all over the country have put down deposits for their bikes and know that they will be waiting for their bike. In the end, they will receive a bike that no one else has. We have put out 17 bikes from the Colorado shop in the past couple years. NOT ONE person has had anything bad to say about their bike when they receive it. That is the honest truth. In between builds we are constantly making frames, tails, custom parts and painting here and there. We cannot make everyone happy and in this case we did not. Mario will recieve his money/parts back so he can move on.

Now that everything is out there, judge for yourself.

Thanks for reading,
Josh
G&L

[WETA]

...hmmm...all that time and now back to square one...schade...time for damage control? or too late?...ka kite...enjoy...

[GreatScott!]

Hey Guys, Just my 2 cents, I know Josh from other sites and he is a stand-up guy and I also know the quality of work that Rich and Josh put out of there shop, top notch! I know it’s hard to wait sometimes but a guy or two can only do so much. My personal feelings about this won’t make anyone happy. I personally will tell people flat out “sorry cant do it now” when I’m real busy. I would rather lose the sale then make a promise that’s hard to keep or increase production at the cost of quality, wont do it period. But in their defense they have a real shop with real bills and they have to keep real money coming in to keep gas in the tanks and electricity to the welders, so deposits are taken and time frames are given with the best intensions but sometimes things happen, suppliers mess up, things take longer to fabricate then you thought and you take more in more work then you can handle. With that being said since there quality has not gone down something has to give and it looks like that something is wait time. As a buyer if you have time constraints and need it done in a certain amount of time you should have a delivery date written on deposit receipt as part of your contract. If you are told 6 months and you are not happy with that you should not enter in a contract and you should go someplace else. If you are told 6 months and they do not deliver you should get back EVERY cent! Only exception being if customer interferes during build causing delays. Dave the tigman is a super nice guy and awesome fabricator but is the same as most with time estimates, told me 6 weeks and was more like 4 months but did a great job and was worth the wait. I personally like things to move right along when I’m into something but sometimes things take time. As far as “damage control” goes no worries there. There is enough good press in the forums about these guys that this thread is about as worrisome as a cloudy day LOL….

[mseriously]

Sounds like the original poster needs a lesson on patience or something.

Josh has always been a good guy. He's answered many questions for me in the past and always tried to make himself available.

Anyone wanting a ground up custom build in 6 months....come on. 2 man shop? The amount of bikes they put out and the demand they have garnered? Come on. And you change your mind? Cut a man some slack holmes!!!

[MARROCKS]

Regardless of wether G&L Choppers has provided some customer with complete builds that took several months, in my case I was lied to. 7 months and nothing to show for other than a picture of a rear wheel with the rear protion of a frame is pathetic for a bike builder who calls himself professional, NOT!
After reading the post I made on this forum questioning his shop on build time, Richard Ford owner of G&L Choppers, canceled the order.
I was promised $5,500, minus the cost of a Chrome Solid Rear Wheel, New Hub, and all receipts proving cost for wheel and machining of hub. Guess what! There was no receipts and no Solid Chrome Rear Wheel, but instead a Solid Polished Aluminum Wheel and a itemized statement. Anyone can type up a statement on a word processor pulling numbers out of the air or their A$$ just to Get Money & Lie.
When a person buys goods they always receive a bill of sales, which is a receipt proving cost of items or services provided. G&l Choppers do not provide the recepits that I had agreed to with Richard Ford on 9/16/9, nor a Solid Chrome Wheel. For all as I know the wheel could have been bought for $100.
Rich has wrote out of 11 years of owing G&L Choppers that he has never delt with a customer with poor quality and lack of integrity.
If I was such a person who lacked interigty then why would I have paid $3,400 on March 11,2009, $1,200 on April 08, 2009, $200 on July 07, 2009, $200 on July 16,2009, $200 on July 30, 2009, $200 on August 18, 2009, and last $600 on Augsut 27, 2009 for a total of $6,000. Everyone of these checks were cashed the same day or next without any hesitation.
If I was such a person of poor quality then why did I have to provied Rich with copies of check statements proving the total cost of $6000. The only one who lacks poor quailty is the one who can't keep his business transactions in a file cabinet with folders of customers proof of payment.
Out of 11 years G&L Choppers has only produced 17 custom builds according to their webiste. Also the website states from the ground up builds including paint. I was inofrmed the rear fender was being sent out to be redone because it was too narrow and the frame had to be sent out to be sandblasted and powder coated. Do they not advertise that they build and paint custom bikes. I did not want to question this only in hopes to receive my build faster than 2,3, or 4 months as I was told because this needed to be done.
Be aware I did change my mind about the build several times because of added cost and hopes to speed the build process. Never about the frame which I know would have prolong the build past seven months.
Modern day con artist do exists. They will take your monies and prolong services as long as they can get away with it. Do not be fooled by daily conversation of how are you and what's going on. This is only to throw you off and forget about what is important the money you sent for the build and when will your custom build be ready.
Ask for a definitive date of build completion and choose a builder within your state and or local area.
This was a learning experience for me and nightmare. Lucky for me within one week I was able to purchase an 04 HD Night Train much faster than G&L Choppers can build a Custom XS650.
Please read Better Business Burea Complaint ID#: 37014117 at http://app.southerncolorado.bbb.org/com ... 7/c/5nun4u
One last professional thing to say to Rich, See Ya!!!

[StrayKaat]

I agree with greatscott and mseriously. Sounds like ants in the pants and indecision played a big part in this fiasco. An 04 Night Train? Not that I don't like the Night Train but that's quite a departure from the decision of an XS650.

Hmm... decisions decisions.

This is an excerpt from the BBB complaint. Sure doesn't look like Richard took the money and ran. It looks more like someone forgot to mention they got back their Harley money...


Statement Provided by Richard Ford Owner/Operateor of G&L Choppers

In March 09 G&L Choppers entered into agreement with Mario Rosales of 222 1/2 N. Ave 55, Los Angeles, Ca 90042 Agreement was based on G&L choppers building a custom Yamaha XS650 Chopper for Rosales. A build agreement was sent to Rosales. Rosales read and signed this agreement. A tentative build date of June 09 was given as a start date.

Approximately one month following this agreement Apr 09, Rosales contacted Me and stated he was feeling apprehention about the build. He stated he was not comfortable with the distance between he and my shop. He explained if he could see what was happening with the build he'd be more comfortable. Following a lengthy discussion Rosales stated he felt comfortable with my shop and appreciated my honesty and wanted to continue the build. Between Apr and June 09 parts and a donor bike was purchase for the Rosales build.

In the begining of June 09 I was notified of a death in the family. I had to shut shop operations down for a two week period. This shut down postponed Rosale's build start date to July. Shortly after returning to my shop in mid June 09 I was contacted by Rosales. Rosales stated that he had heard about my having to return to Michigan. He then stated that he still had apprehensions about the build and that he was considering cancelling once again. I had another lengthy conversation with Rosales that lasted over one hour. At this point a donor bike and parts had already been puchased for his build. I explained that due to the the uncontrolable circumstances my shop was now behind in production and we would be starting his bike on a later date, July 09. Rosales stated he understood and agreed to continue the build process.

In Mid July 09 the build process started on Rosales's motorcycle. During the month of July and August Rosales and I had many conversations in regards to misc. things that he wanted to put on the bike. In late August we agreed upon an adjusted build price of $7200. The adusted price was based upon upgrades to the original discussed build list.

In early Sept.09 I recieved a call at my shop from Rosales. Rosales again stated he had apprehension in regards to the build time and cost. He stated that he wanted to discuss why we had to raise the price. I explained that he had requested additional options which in turn wouldd raise the cost. Rosales seemed fine with this and the conversation ended. Within two days Rosales called back stating he wanted to now take the additional options off and go back to the original discussed options. An additional two days pass and I receive a third call from Rosales and he again stated that his apprehensions for this build are bothering him again. I explained to Rosales that I cannot take the time to make him comfortable anymore. I gave him the option of letting us continue with the build or getting his money back. Rosales stated that he would let us continue the build process. I explained that there was about three weeks left in the build process and he could call in two or three weeks to see where we were at.

Two weeks passed, it is now 12 Sept 09. Rosales stated he's still having apprehensions. I explained that we had problems with the wheel fitting and had to have it machined to fit. The maching process took roughly four days to complete. I explained this to Rosales and he understood.

Following this discussion I was alerted to a forum entry in regards to my shop. This particular entry was on 650motorcycles.com. It consisted of statements which not only questioned my integrity but the integrity of my business.


In 11yrs of owning G&L Choppers I've never delt with customer of such poor quality and lack of integrity. Due to the statements on the forum and continuous revolving issues with Rosales, I elected to cancel the build. Please take into account that in 11yrs of running my own business I've never elected to cancel a build project. I contacted Rosales immediately to notify him of the cancelation.

G&L Choppers recieved a total of $6000.00 down payment for the build project. An agreement was made between Rosales and G&L Choppers that Rosales would receive a adjusted down payment of $5500.00 and the solid polished billet 18x5.5 wheel ($500) as the return on his down payment. This wheel is new in the box but was machined to fit his particular build. Therefore, the wheel is a is a non refundable item.


The 18x5.5 Solid billet polished wheel, LED light, bearing and seal, and a canceled $200 check was sent via UPS on 9-24-09. UPS tracking# 1z800x900307767016. A shipping charge of $30.00 was charged to Rosales.

On 9-25-09 a business check was sent to Rosales via USPS Priority for the sum of $5470.00. The $30.00 shipping cost for the wheel was deducted from this payment.

[Jimed]

Here is my frame from G&L, http://s745.photobucket.com/albums/xx99 ... 650007.jpg , [img][http://s745.photobucket.com/albums/xx99/jimed/?action=view&current=xs650007.jpg/img] the workmanship is great. Did it take a long time to get it yes it did but it was worth it. Rich and Josh were very up front with me and still are.
Paul has had my motor since May and I will not get it back until Jan 2010 due to parts issues from MikesXS so I think 7-8 months for a complete build is not unusal. I paid complete up front to both G&L $1700 and Paul $2800 and will wait almost 9 months just for my engine build so why are you crying?

[bigpup]

Sounds like G&L did everything to try and please this customer but just could not. Calling a shop that many times would be frustrating for the owners, Customer definetly needs a lesson in patience.

[xsbigbore]

Marrocks, really bad form to air your greivances this way. The net has made the world a hell of a lot smaller, and the XS community as well. You can rest assured that if you bag anyone in the XS world on a XS forum, that it's going to get back to them.....................What did you hope to acheive when you started this thread???????

G&L still have their integrity intact, yours is shot to pieces.............Now your just another dirt bag on a Harley, congratulations!

So why dont you drop the night train off at Central Coast Cycles, see how you go there with a one off custom, they'd love a customer like you, I'm sure!

[mseriously]

I don't know about you, but this paints a picture of immense patience on the part of G&L. If anything, this makes me want a custom G&L build more than anything now...completely serious.

Great build quality takes time and they're obviously not comfortable putting out half-rate builds.